44R Forum Drive Heathcote 2233

Torrens Title Subdivision of One (1) Lot Into Seven (7) Lots, Construction of a Meeting Hall (Place of Public Worship), Construction of an Internal Road and Ancillary Works Comprising Translocation of Existing Melaleuca Deanei

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We found this application for you on the planning authority's website over 8 years ago. It was received by them 1 day earlier.

(Source: Sutherland Shire Council, reference DA11/1270)


Have your say by adding your own comment.

  1. Sharon Burke commented

    I am very concerned about the proposed construction of a Public Place of Worship (meeting hall) and 7 lots at the end of Forum Drive Heathcote.

    Several years ago we were evacuated from our home on Boxing Day night due to a bushfire. Well over 100 households needed to exit via Dalley Road. This resulted in a queue of cars at the end of Forum Drive Upper including ourselves needing to leave due to the fire but unable to turn right into Corinth Road because so many cars were travelling south along Corinth Road (the only exit route available due to the fire).

    If further lots and most particularly a Place of Public Worship are created at the end of Forum Drive this evacuation problem will be much greater and a real danger to our community. I strongly believe that this application DA11/1270 should not be approved on safety grounds.

  2. Wayne and Janette Greene commented

    We must object to this application for a so called "meeting hall" at the end of Forum Drive, Heathcote. Forum Drive is a dead end road with one access in and the same one out. It is a very fire prone area on the ridge of a steep hill surrounded by bush on the south as well as to the west (where most of our bush fires have come from). With a westerly wind combined with extreme temperatures, Forum Drive is one of the most highest fire prone areas of Heathcote. In the thirty two years that my family has been living at Heathcote we have been through at least four major fires and have been evacuated on three occasions. Heathcote is surrounded by bush in the East, South and West. When we have fires the roads are choked with traffic trying to get to our only two roads out, either the Princes Highway or the Heathcote Road. If we should have what is known as a "Section 4" fire where it is totally out of control impacting on the Forum Drive / Corinth Road parts of Heathcote and this development goes ahead, the end result could be devastating. If this church development goes ahead and is full of people, not to mention those in the surrounding streets, a great many lives could be lost due to only one way out. Should that road become blocked either by smoke or car accident, no one could get out.
    I do not have a problem with any church group wanting a meeting hall but I do object to the very careless and impractical location that is being proposed. We both feel that development application number DA11/1270 should not be approved due to both traffic and fire dangers.

  3. KAY ARMSTRONG commented

    I have lived in Beethoven Street Engadine for 42 years overlookingwhere the proposed development site in Forum Drive. I cannot work out how this property has been acquired, who sold the land to these people and why should they be allowed to block off a fire trail with locked gates for there own use with access for the fire brigade and no one else when there is a fire, the fire will invariably come again. Also the plan I have seen takes in some of Heathcote National Park, how can this happen?
    What is going to happen to the intersection of Heathcote Road and Forum Drive, I guess there will be a set of lights put in to control the extra traffic and choke Heathcote Road even more creating more accidents.
    I am totally apposed to this development and can't think of any reason why it should be approved.

  4. Kevin R Jacobson commented

    I am extremely concerned that these type of developments can get through. I hope this doesn't for the following reasons.

    1. Bush fire hazard and danger during evacuation for attenders at the 900 seat venue and the local residents all trying to get out at the same time. The roads are too small for this traffic.

    2. The weekly, monthly and annual traffic despite their small numbers mentioned will grow. They are intending to grow. That's fine. That's why they are moving from a 500 seat venue to a 900 seat venue. But this means the attendance and potential for growth is huge with multiple meetings. Our small streets can't handle this. Imagine a street that has parked cars on both sides from residents. Only one car can fit through the middle. How will a hundred plus cars and buses get through here without problems.

    3. The threat to animals, flora and forna in this bush area is of concern. This is well used by residents for bushwalking etc. Don't let this area be destroyed.

    4. How did they aquire the land from a small ad in the paper without anyone else knowing. Why were no large for sale signs placed on site? This is the norm I thought. What's going on with the sales of our land for everyone?


    Write to your councillor and politicians.

  5. Sandra Campbell commented

    I have read the statement of Environmental Effects included in the DA11/1270 which included a table of anticipated traffic volume during particular meeting times. Sunday morning one can expect 400 people in 100 cars. That is, 1 car every 9 secs allowing that people arrive within 15 minutes of the starting time and leave within a 15 minute period.That doesn't allow for the queue of cars building up whilst cars are being parked etc.

    I've lived through this when Inaburra Baptist School grew from 300 to 1100 and they built a 650 seat performing arts centre in Billa rd last year. The local streets come to a grinding halt every day with still no submission of a traffic management plan to council.

    Forum Street is not designed for such high traffic use not to mention that it feeds from the hilly and winding Corinth Street at an intersection of limited visibility - a dangerous mix.

    As to the development being a public place of worship - are we all going to be allowed to attend? My understanding is that if you are not a Brethren then you can't get past the security personnel on the gate.

  6. Greg and Kerri Smith commented

    We have several concerns related to this development application and object to it's implementation.

    The potential impact on the 'valley view' aspect of residents of Engadine, such as ourselves, who overlook the Forum Drive area may be substantial and could impact on property values and our quality of life.

    The development may have a significant effect on traffic flow in narrow urban streets not designed to manage large volumes of traffic during the narrow time frames of the centres meeting times. There currently exists serious traffic risks on Heathcote road and the Princes Highway in the area as exampled by frequent serious accidents on Heathcote road and the imposition of a 50 kilometer an hour limit through Heathcote shopping centre. It is of concern that there does not appear to be any intention to conduct road works to improve local infrastructure to manage this risk.

    The areas surrounding Heathcote National Park are subject to serious fire risk during extended hot, dry periods and due to the frequent, strong prevailing winds in the area. Past fires have resulted in extensive property loss and human tragedy. This development may place visitors and residents at increased risk, particularly in terms of vehicular evacuation with limited exits to main roads leading away from the areas at risk. It is also of concern that access to a fire trail appears to be ceded to the applicants control.

    The environmental impact is of particular concern to us as there are limited amounts of native habitat outside of national parks and it is distressing that such areas continue to be subject to sale and development. While provision has been made to transplant a threatened plant species the development appears to require the destruction and/or fragmentation of the native habitat. This would probably result in increased incursion of introduced plant and birds species into the surrounding habitat, ie. pushing the 'edge effect' further towards or into the national park.

  7. Maurice Pignatelli commented

    I have serious reservations about the impacts this development will have on our local community, the amenity of our neighbourhood and bushfire safety. This development is consistent with the objectives of the Sutherland Shire Local Environmental Plan 2006 (SSLEP2006).

    I have experienced the 1994, 1997 and 2000 bushfires in this area and our family was evacuated due to the fires in 2000. The fact that this DA is not supported by a Bushfire Emergency Evacuation Plan is contemptible. Regardless however, no amount of specialist reports can convince us that bushfire risk to life, property and the environment can be managed, to an acceptable level, if a meeting hall of this scale is approved by Council at this location. The scale of the development amplifies the bushfire risk for the residential community, attendees at the meeting hall and all emergency services.

    The scale and nature of this development will also impact on the character of this community which consists predominantly of residential dwellings. The development has been designed explicitly not to integrate into the locality. The development is “exclusive†and surrounded by an institutional style compound totally out of character with the open and inclusive community which currently resides in the area. Serenity will be maintained within the compound by design and exclusion, whilst its attendees will traverse through the community impacting on our amenity with noise and traffic. Council is asking the local residents to forego what they cherish about the area for zero community benefit.

    The Traffic and Parking Implications Assessment supporting this DA cannot be relied upon. The report provides no confidence to the local residents that the current or future traffic and parking implications have been adequately assessed. The traffic assessment is based on regular patronage of the meeting hall of up to 400 attendees whilst the capacity of the hall is 900. It is reasonable to expect that regular patronage will grow over time to potentially 900, which will increase traffic impacts and cause parking problems for this and future generations. If this were to occur, the consequences of traffic and parking congestion would be irreversible.

  8. Michael Hardie commented


    I would like to oppose this development on the basis of a number of concerns.

    1. The threat in an emergency bush fir evacuation. The roads are small, narrow and surrounded by bushland. If a fire comes quickly getting the current residents out is a concern already. Adding extra cars and people would be very dangerous and may result in loss of life.

    2. The traffic and noise of car doors, car noise and extra road traffic at early mornings, evenings and their large events will destroy the peace and quiet that this area enjoys.

    3. The threat to wildlife, flora and forna will be an issue. Have the thorough reports been done that are not biased to the applicant? We see a lot of wildlife in this site and I'd hate to see what happens to them.

    Please could you take seriously the concerns and impact this will have on a friendly, quiet, family oriented community. We bought here for the quiet and bushland atmosphere.

    Thanks so much for your work and consideration.

  9. KAY ARMSTRONG commented

    After my previous comment I visited the development site and found the vulnerable bushes melaleuca deanii. The report suggests that the 13 bushes are inside a high fence but my observation is that the majority of the bushes are actually outside the fenced area. I cannot see how these mature bushes would survive being moved to another site and think this should be closely looked at before this step is taken.
    Also the visual impact study forgot to add the residents that live to the north of the site being from Fairview Avenue and Beethoven Street going south towards Heathcote Road. A lot of these properties face straight across the gully and will be looking directly at the building. There were no photos taken from this angle and the two photos taken from Stephens Rd don't give a correct indication from this area.
    There are also mixed reports as to the building hight, will it be above the ridge line or not?

  10. Sandra and Ian Reinhard commented

    We too wish to voice our concerns and objections to this proposed development of 44R Forum Drive, Heathcote. From our residence in Beethoven Street, Engadine, where we have lived and paid rates for the past 40 years, we will view directly across the valley to this huge development. I refer to the word "huge" in respect to a residential area on the edge of a national park.

    If a visual impact study was taken from the northerly direction it would show a completely different aspect to that taken from the more easterly direction of Stephens Road. We feel this has not been fairly taken into account.

    In the St. George and Sutherland Shire Leader edition of Tuesday 24th January 2012, we have Heathcote Road called a 'Horror Stretch' with the amount of fatalities that have occurred over the last five years. There is no doubt that a facility to accommodate 900 people will bring more traffic than our local roads can handle.

    You are our Council. Please look at all of our concerns with the obvious implications of a development of this size in Heathcote and indeed the Sutherland Shire.

  11. Christoff Mans commented

    I am writing to object and oppose the proposed development DA11/1270 at Forum Drive, Heathcote.

    My concern is the Council seem to ignore all safety regulations around the Forum Drive and Heathcote Road junction.
    The Council also seem to show no concern for the residents living near Heathcote Road.

    There are fatal accidents on Heathcote Road nearly every week. Several accidents also occurred near the Forum Drive junction.
    With 900 people gathering in a hall, there will be about 200 cars coming from the West trying to turn right on Heathcote Road into Forum Drive, This will happen at least every Tuesday afternoon near peak hours and will cause cars to form queues that will have to stand in the right turn lane plus the fast (right) lane of Heathcote Road. This queue will form right in the blind spot coming up the hill. When drivers see the queue, it will probably be too late to take evasive action.
    There is not even a stop line painted on the Forum Drive to indicate the position where cars should stop and this already caused several accidents.
    Do the council have no concern about the safety of residents?

    Similar areas near main roads like Heathcote Road are protected by Sound Barrier walls. Only in Sutherland Shire you will find barely any sound barrier walls. Is this because the Sutherland Council just do not care about their residents?

    The questions about evacuation during bushfires and environmental damage seem to be of no concern to the Council either?
    The purchasing of the land and development deals also seem to be shrouded in mystery with no public participation, questionable property prices and notices only put up one day before the expiry date

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